Well I definitely don't think we should get rid of the hair and eye color tags altogether. I mean, tags are used to search for things. How are you going to look up characters with, say, red hair AND green eyes (or any permutation of hair and eye color) if we don't use them anymore? Sometimes it's hard to remember the exact name of an artist or character of a post you're trying to find.

As for the black eyes thing, I do use it when the characters eyes are not, in fact, totally black. If a character has black hair and their eyes exactly match the color(s) used for their hair, I will tag the eyes as being black (instead of gray).
If you can discern black pupils separate from the iris, then the iris has a color which is not black. There are very few posts with truly fully black eyes. If the color is indiscernible, whether because of the view angle or the lighting, it is better to not tag the eye color. To tag anything but truly black eyes as black_eyes instead of tagging grey_eyes for grey irides, we should just alias grey_eyes to black_eyes.
I agree that there is a subjective aspect to these tags... Even aside from the methods people use for examining the structure of depicted eyes/hair to determine its color, there are differences in how individuals see color, differences in how color is displayed by computer screens (my desktop, laptop, and phone all display color differently from each other), and differences in what ranges and shades of colors people personally associate with various color terms.

As an example, for post #237596 that was just uploaded, viewing it from my desktop computer I would classify the character on the (viewer's) right as having orange eyes and the character on the left as having either yellow or orange, perhaps closer to yellow. But on my phone's screen, which has more vibrant/vivid coloration (contrast or saturation perhaps?), both sets of eyes appear to be orange to me.

Kiho said:
If the color is indiscernible, whether because of the view angle or the lighting, it is better to not tag the eye color.
I would agree with this in cases of absolute failure to determine the color, but if someone manages to determine that (in their perspective) the eyes/hair are either of two potential colors, I would advocate for them tagging at least one of those colors if not both. That way the people whose perspectives err on the side of the tags that are applied can still benefit from them.

As for removing the tags entirely, I am unsure if the merit in this is worth what would be lost. There is the issue of reducing subjectivity in tagging and thereby upholding Konachan's culture and its quality standards, as well as the reduction of tag clutter (although I've personally never minded "tag clutter"). But it's not as if these tags are useless, is it? Personally I think it wouldn't be such a problem for Konachan to establish an understanding that the color tags are never going to be applied perfectly and to make an exception to the anti-subjectivity policies just for them.
On another note, is the wiki page for ass accurate? It says to only tag if the buttocks in question are the most prominent feature of the image. So then in post #237592 , where there is a prominent ass but it isn't the most prominent feature, it would be left untagged? Is that how people have been using the tag, and want to be using it?
Besides the obvious reason (presenting), I also tag ass if it is one of the focal points of the image, not necessarily the most prominent feature. I will also tag it if the primary character(s) of interest are facing backwards (not front facing) to indicate the viewing perspective similar to Not tagging breasts if a nude or topless character is visible only from the back. I don't tag it for any characters in the background. I generally don't tag for background characters at all.
If we are going to host S&M images such as post #238758, I lobby for an extreme_content tag as on yande.re - I personally find such S&M images disturbing - I doubt I am unique in this.
Kiho said:
If we are going to host S&M images such as post #238758, I lobby for an extreme_content tag as on yande.re - I personally find such S&M images disturbing - I doubt I am unique in this.
you're probably not the only one no. In my opinion, post #328758 doesn't appear extreme. I do agree that some images will cross the line though, and this line cannot possibly be set to please everyone.

I like bondage, I'm not too much into the S&M part, but then again... This post doesn't categorize as S&M in my book. I'm not against an extreme_content tag.
I think it would be too hard to categorize. Not everyone agrees on what is "extreme" or not. Then you'd have to consider whether to limit it to just sex stuff or violence too (we rate violent images "safe" most of the time, mind you, and putting "extreme_content" on a safe image sounds dumb).
It is not the bondage that I find disturbing, but the asphyxiation - to misquote a line: There is no sex in violence. I partake in Judo. There are asphyxiation submissions in judo, i can tell you personally, when you get into one of those "situations" they are very "unpleasant". I know that the referee will call it off after 10 seconds and that there is medical support....but these such images are very different situations and they make me Very Uncomfortable. This is far beyond an "tender" showing of "trust".
Some women like being choked. Choked to the point of it hurting and not being able to breathe. People are in to weird shit. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean everyone also finds it unpleasant.

It just seems easier to me to ignore a post you don't like or use the blacklist. We don't get many images like that anyway.
... vf, you typed the post number wrong in your reply... For a minute I thought someone had hard deleted the post.

otaku_emmy said:
... or use the blacklist.
I think that was Kiho's intention. The issue being that there were no tags pertaining to what he took issue with.

If we were to tag stuff like this, I wouldn't want to use a tag as vague or broad as "extreme_content". It would be better to make blacklist tags more specific, even if we only end up with a few posts for each tag.
otaku_emmy said:
Some women like being choked. Choked to the point of it hurting and not being able to breathe. People are in to weird shit. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean everyone also finds it unpleasant.

It just seems easier to me to ignore a post you don't like or use the blacklist. We don't get many images like that anyway.
One cannot use a blacklist unless There is a TAG to black list. What should be tagged is anything that would be considered torture or premeditated, methodical violence. Not a spontaneous street fight or a shoot out..... It is the psychological aspect of the violence that makes it extreme_content.
If someone liked images of solo bondage or non explicit bondage, they could blacklist:

"bondage" + "rating:e"
"bondage" + "male"
"bondage" + "censored"
"bondage" + "sex"

If they didn't like bondage at all, they could do "bondage" by itself.

Sometimes you have to think a little and get creative with the combos.

Edit: It's just funny to me that you consider that extreme.
@Kiho
So, did you miss my post? Or would tagging things individually (ie. asphyxiation) not be enough for you?

otaku_emmy said:
It's just funny to me that you consider that extreme.
Everyone has different fears. I think it's rather ridiculous how I react to images with a syringe, but that's just something I can't stand seeing for some reason. I can imagine being put in an asphyxiation situation where you realize "This could kill me and there's nothing I could do about it" may very well change your outlook on asphyxiation.
Oh I get that. But it's a drawing. And, like I said, some people like being choked. Being choked doesn't automatically mean someone is in danger. Again though, it's an anime chick. It's not real. I'm rational enough to not get bent out of shape over a drawing.

Ya'll do what you want though. I've said my piece.
otaku_emmy said:
It's not real. I'm rational enough to not get bent out of shape over a drawing.
That somewhat reminds me of Shinon (GGO).

Though in most cases, I don't think the authenticity or realism of an image has much to do with fear. If anything, I think I react more strongly to syringes in anime artwork than I do to those in photographs or real life. Why? I don't know. I can get my blood taken without much of a problem, but just seeing one lying around in an image here is enough to make me feel sick.

Whether we allow "extreme_content" as a tag is another matter. Not many people will agree on what it should cover (ie. asphyxiation, drugs, syringes, rape, etc.). Many people will probably only want to blacklist one or two specific things and wouldn't want to include in that everything anyone else might consider "extreme".
Zolxys said:
Whether we allow "extreme_content" as a tag is another matter. Not many people will agree on what it should cover (ie. asphyxiation, drugs, syringes, rape, etc.). Many people will probably only want to blacklist one or two specific things and wouldn't want to include in that everything anyone else might consider "extreme".
That was the point I was trying to make.

Also, you might as well go ahead and make a "nazi" or "swastika" tag too, to cover the offensive bases.

People have always and will always complain about images they don't like. People have complained about the Nazi/Swastika images we have, people have complained about the traps and futanari we have, and people have voiced displeasure with other images of rape and female degradation we have on here. No one's done anything about it when people have mentioned making new tags (higher ups deeming it unnecessary), so I don't see why we'd start now.

Edit: But my main point was that getting everyone to agree on what is "extreme" or not would be complicated.
... People complain about traps and futanari even though we do have tags for them. Nothing much we can do about that except make the blacklist system more ideal, which I'm actually writing a script for.

The original plan was to write a better blacklist system into the Konachan's code, but I'm not big on doing that without having access to Konachan's code for reference and testing...

I'm writing an "Always show full pages" option into the "Show X Per Page" script (as well as a number of other options). The inconsistent number of (visible) posts per page was the biggest problem people had with the blacklist system. I don't have much time to work on it right now, but I will probably have enough next month.

As for other blacklist tags, I'm more willing to create tags for things that are easy to define and could fall under the category of traumas or phobias. Though that doesn't mean anything has been approved yet. And we still haven't from Kiho on anything but the "extreme_content" tag which we are very unlikely to approve.

otaku_emmy said:
Edit: But my main point was that getting everyone to agree on what is "extreme" or not would be complicated.
Impossible is more like it. This is something that will vary greatly from one person to another.

Because it seems like everyone missed it, in my first posts here today I said:
If we were to tag stuff like this, I wouldn't want to use a tag as vague or broad as "extreme_content". It would be better to make blacklist tags more specific, even if we only end up with a few posts for each tag.
Zolxys said:
Because it seems like everyone missed it, in my first posts here today I said:
Even then, wouldn't that go against our whole..."not-making-a-new-tag-for-something-uncommon" thing?

The girl in that specific post isn't being raped, so you couldn't apply a "rape" tag. As far as I can recall, we don't have many images of women being choked by males in sexual situations. We don't even have many images of full blown rape, I don't think (I can personally recall a few rather old ones - less than five).

You'd have to pick and choose and come up with terms for "extreme" things that might potentially offend someone in the future. (Though I don't see why they'd be on a R-18 anime image board in the first place if they were squeamish about potentially perverse, non vanilla content...)
Yes. As far as our policy goes, we normally wouldn't create a tag for something so rare. Most posts that would fall into "extreme" categories either wouldn't be approved or would be deleted as guro. What's left are more common fetishes that most people here are probably used to seeing, and milder posts that might still bother some people.

But as someone that can understand just how bad a trauma/phobia can be, I don't want to outright object to creating a blacklist tag for something like that. A short video clip or manga can stick in your mind and torture you 50 times over again over the course of several years. Your mind can even make it worse than it was when you first saw it...
I don't have a phobia with asphyxiation, I practice such holds on judo training (give and get). What disturbed me in that image was the situation. Similarly, I do not have a fear of syringes in a doctor's office, but if I was confronted by some stranger on the street holding a syringe, I would be very apprehensive.....again the situation.

I am looking for a tag which distinguishes between what most people would consider mildly kinky but acceptable situations, but when taken to the extreme, disturbing.

For example:
There are certain tags, that would draw the wrong kind of attention, which are mostly avoided on other boards: suicide, S&M, torture, asphyxiation - the specific tags - that is why I suggested extreme_content to lump all those situations together. We have much less of this content than the other boards. (which btw is fine with me.)

I don't agree that the definition is so vague as to be unmanageable. Yande.re successfully manages it. Most people have a good idea of what is extreme content: sadism, torture, suicide, asphyxiation (jugulation), highly restrictive bondage, violent rape, hanging, guro....

Where I want to take this discussion is back to yande.re's default blacklist tags for anonymous visitors. There are two tags: rating:explicit and extreme_content. I believe that yande avoids "official complaints" because of this policy and I would like to see konachan implement it too, but we need the tag to do it right.
Kiho said:
I don't agree that the definition is so vague as to be unmanageable. Yande.re successfully manages it. Most people have a good idea of what is extreme content: sadism, torture, suicide, asphyxiation (jugulation), highly restrictive bondage, violent rape, hanging, guro....
Where did you get that list? Was it just off the top of your head?

I just checked yande.re's wiki for extreme_content. The definitions are practically identical to what we list as Grotesque and Bestiality in the banned content section of our Upload Guidelines. Though they apply that to sex with any non-human creatures including tentacle monsters, whereas we allow tentacles.

None of the content you listed was listed in their wiki, except guro == mutilation.

yande.re's extreme_content:
  • Any depiction of mutilation, bodily distension, feces, or bodies that are far outside the realm of normal human proportion.
  • Any images depicting humans having explicit sex with other non-human creatures.
Looking through bondage on yande.re (because that was the only searchable term from your list), nearly all of those posts also tagged extreme_content were posts that matched their wiki definition for extreme_content. There were only a few that could have been tagged for restrictive bondage. However, there were a lot of those without the extreme_content tag.

TL;DR: You figured most people had the same idea of where to draw the lines for extreme_content and used yande.re as an example of what we should do, but the definition you gave for the tag doesn't even come remotely close to yande.re's definition...

*Edit: I only found one of your examples on yande.re: yande.re #386041. No extreme_content tag.
It was my list of "specific tags". I referenced yande.re because they have an extreme_content tag and effectively manage it.

sadism, torture, suicide, asphyxiation (jugulation), highly restrictive bondage, violent rape, hanging - With possibly the exception of sadism, all these terms are well understood by most people and can be clearly articulated in a definition. I need to write a full wiki as soon as I get the time.

While Yande.re does not call out bondage or torture in their extreme_content wiki, there are images that are so tagged solely because of bondage, torture or violent_rape.

I did not see images of suicide, these may be banned on yande.re; their upload guidelines for prohibited content is 9 years old and out of date vis-a-vis the extreme_content tag definition.