I changed our tag for a character from hentai_ouji_to_warawanai_neko:

-Danbooru, Sankaku, and ANN all use emanuella_porlallora
-Yande.re and Anime Characters Database use emanuela_pollarola
-And we had... emanuela_porelora >.>.

We now use emanuella_porlallora chosen based on number and priority of sources; I figured there wouldn't be any dispute about this, but if there is, I can change it again. (Danbooru also has the other two variants aliased to their main tag; I'll submit an alias (and leave it unapproved) for the one Yan has)

Edit: Actually, I forgot an L in the tag name. Oops. Fixed.
Edit2: Scratch that, I'm not submitting an alias; realized how similar and unique the names are already. Someone could easily type the first 7 letters and get what they're looking for without the alias.
I have no idea how Japanese people are even supposed to say that. XD
Friendly reminder that Japanese people are dumb when it comes to non-syllable connection flows.
Proposing tag change emilia => emilia_(re:zero)

-Increased consistency with our own tagging (there are currently 12 character tags on Kona including the word "emilia" but all the others either have last names or the series name appended to them; also, our tags for other single-part-name characters in the Re:Zero series have the series appended to them, and our tags for most other single-part-name characters in other series also follow this format)
-Booru synchronization (Dan/San/Yan all have emilia_(re:zero) as their tag)
-Reduced ambiguity (especially considering that Sankaku also has an "emilia" tag which - in addition to erroneous application on emilia_(re:zero) images - also includes characters named Emilia from at least two other series, and even Yande.re has an emilia tag with 1 image (something from durarara!!)

It's such an obvious change that Dreista accidentally used the tag the way it would logically be designed instead of our current emilia tag when uploading an image...
I'm throwing your Booru synchronization argument out the window. That should never be an argument on Konachan.

You only need to bring this comment in as your argument.
Wat? Plenty of other experienced users here agree with me about the value of booru synchronization and have said as much in the past. (And frankly, I don't recall you ever telling them that they should never use that as an argument.)

Booru synchronization is helpful, as long as it doesn't compromise the other ideals or policies of a particular booru. It makes it easier and more convenient for people who normally use one booru to perform basic searches on others without learning as much about the idiosyncrasies of their particular tagging systems. It's fine to expect uploaders and taggers to learn those things, but most people just come here to search for images. And it's harmless for regulars on Kona as long as we stick to the aforementioned guideline of not compromising what makes Konachan itself.

Are you seriously making the argument that trying to increase convenience for other people is stupid on a website designed around providing a free useful service to other people? That's extremely silly.
minabiStrikesAgain said:
Plenty of other experienced users here agree with me about the value of booru synchronization.
Even inexperienced ones like me.
You're in over your head. You're making a mess out of a simple thing. I said it's not needed in any argument, as it is, in itself, self explanatory. Bringing it up over and over again is redundant.
And to say that about "any argument on Konachan" isn't in over your head? You're not that prescient, lol.

If you wanted to tell me that I was being inefficient by making more arguments than necessary to convince people, then you phrased your criticism incompetently to convey that to me. Even then though I would disagree with you. I'm not some social genius that perfectly understands exactly what quantity and degree of reasoning will be required to convince all relevant people about something, but I do know from experience that as a result of my mental problems I'm often oblivious to certain things, including technical things about Konachan. So instead of just stating one type of reasoning for making some change and being somewhat baselessly confident that that's all that is required, why not state three reasons? If I screwed up my logic for one or two, I'll have a fallback to support my point.

Giving more reasons is also useful for adding more weight to an argument when convincing people that (for whatever reason) have irrational hangups about making certain types of changes to the site.

(You could point out that I didn't do that for the emanuella_porlallora tag a couple days prior. I admit that my behavior there is not entirely consistent, but that's because I had an idea of being more cautious with handling a tag for a more popular character with 152 undeleted images like emilia_(re:zero) compared to a tag for an obscure character with 7 images.)

Also, describing the tags other boorus have and thus how booru synchronization would be increased with a tag change has a double function as a PSA as well; it's not exclusively an argument. And furthermore it's helpful for newer users for whom it isn't already "self-evident" to learn more about the process of adjudicating changes on Konachan, if they want to read it.

That said, if you are trying to help me increase my own efficiency, then thanks I suppose. \o/
Well you made your own point towards yourself in the first sentence of your previous comment.
minabiStrikesAgain said:
Wat? Plenty of other experienced users here agree with me about the value of booru synchronization and have said as much in the past.
<insert a re-quote of Kiho's most efficient comment>
Yes, I said that because I was under the impression your debate position was that booru synchronization is logically invalid, not that it was inefficient. I agree that me making paragraph responses with three justifications for changes isn't perfectly efficient, but as I explained above, it's not as though there isn't any reason for me to do it.
tfw this whole conversation could've been avoided if I'd just noticed the tag was wrong when the image was uploaded in the first place

feels bad man
Dreista's mistagging helped me notice the problem though. ^>^

And I don't think the conversation would've more ideally been avoided. I don't have a problem with confrontations.
We have two tags for one artist: gejigejier and ge_ji_ge_ji_er

Edit: Thank you, Emmy!
Emmy: Why did you ALIAS seifuku to school_uniform without ANY Discussion here?!?!?!

We now have LOST ALL TAGS for real seifuku. You should have used an IMPLICATION if you wanted seifuku to reference a general school_uniform. And that STILL should have been discuss here, especially when an alias or an implication affects thousands of (in this case 21,705) images!

This is the same loss of data when you merged elbow_gloves with gloves so that searching on elbow_gloves brings up thousands of unrelated glove images.
Zolxys didn't have any issues with it.

I was just tired of the tag being inaccurate, honestly. I don't feel bad about changing it or anything.
otaku_emmy said:
Zolxys didn't have any issues with it

I was just tired of the tag being inaccurate, honestly. I don't feel bad about changing it or anything.
Zolxys didn't have any issues with it. Ok, but did Anyone else have a issue with it?

Emmy, what is the point of this Tag Discussion Forum if it is not used to discuss major tag changes such as the Deprecation of such a basic and historic tag such as seifuku with thousands of such tagged images?

I re-post here, SciFi's Opening Satement from the first post in this forum:

Tag Discussion - What are these tags for?
  • This topic is for the discussion of tags to be removed or Modified.
    • Anyone can propose a tag and justify why it should be removed/modified.
    • There will be a period of at least 7 days to discuss, and indeed to justify keeping it. 2 days for tag creation.
    • Neglected or redundant tags are usual candidates, as are ones that shouldn't have been created.
    • If no consensus it reached the tag remains as is, pending Admin decision.
These are the rules wrt to tags we have all agreed upon and we should either follow them or change them, officially - otherwise it is Anarchy. I can live with Anarchy, but will it bother you, Emmy, if I make a few autocratic tag changes to normalize Konachan's tag names with Yande.re's?
I don't know if we've even used those rules in recent memory. I didn't even know there was a waiting period, and I think it's kind of a...unneeded thing to have. To go by. Because there aren't that many people to discuss things with in the first place, and I'd rather not have to argue with someone for a week over a tag on an anime wallpaper site. I just don't have it in me to do that at this point in my life.

As for Yandere, their tagging is pretty darn shitty compared to ours and Danbooru's. They're either lacking in detail or, in some cases, completely wrong. So I wouldn't necessarily use them as a good example to go by when talking about tags.

When I changed the tag, I wasn't strictly thinking about having it match another booru. It was just an inaccurate tag. AT THE SAME TIME I don't want to start using three different tags for the same outfit like Dan does either.

So I simplified it.
Kiho said:
Zolxys didn't have any issues with it. Ok, but did Anyone else have a issue with it?

Emmy, what is the point of this Tag Discussion Forum if it is not used to discuss major tag changes such as the Deprecation of such a basic and historic tag such as seifuku with thousands of such tagged images?
I'll make it easier for you.
I am now officially joining this discussion and i agree with emmy.
Seeing as nobody else is saying anything i guess that makes this 3-1.
I don't mean to brag or anything, but I have...jeez, 199994 tag edits under my belt. I guess it'll be 200,000+ in a minute...

Anyway, I've been doing this a long time. My goal has always been simplification, clarity, and accuracy. I don't even know how many pages of images I've fixed because they weren't tagged right.

I've not always made the best choices, but I stand by this one.
otaku_emmy said:
I don't mean to brag or anything, but I have...jeez, 199994 tag edits under my belt. I guess it'll be 200,000+ in a minute...

Anyway, I've been doing this a long time. My goal has always been simplification, clarity, and accuracy. I don't even know how many pages of images I've fixed because they weren't tagged right.

I've not always made the best choices, but I stand by this one.
The first day is almost officially over. As long as nobody else starts to complain, it's just the waiting game.
otaku_emmy said:
I don't know if we've even used those rules in recent memory. I didn't even know there was a waiting period, and I think it's kind of a...unneeded thing to have. To go by. Because there aren't that many people to discuss things with in the first place, and I'd rather not have to argue with someone for a week over a tag on an anime wallpaper site. I just don't have it in me to do that at this point in my life.
I do acknowledge that you do most of the moderation on konachan. I appreciate your dedication and I respect that you have a strong sense of ownership. However that does not give you the right to be autocratic regardless of other factors/events in your life.

The tag change process was always very rigorous and was enforced back when Zolxys, SciFi, Wireetc, minabiStrikesAgain, Flandere were very active. But in more recent times, there have only been simple tag corrections, not a deprecation or addition to the general tags. That does not mean the process should be ignored now.

While there are not that many people with whom to discuss tags changes, those few people with whom you should discuss changes also have a sense of ownership here. There are other active mods, contributors and members that regularly post, tag and comment and have a right to be involved. They expect to be involved.

This is not the first time you and I have had this discussion. I recall when you, without any discussion on this forum added the implication elbow_gloves =>> gloves thereby adding 15,000 images to any search with the tag elbow_gloves. We had this same discussion back then about posting proposed changes to this tag discussion thread before taking unilateral action.

If you are not willing to or feel you cannot defend you decision to delete a tag on this forum, then you should not do it. The deprecation of a tag can be undone.

otaku_emmy said:
When I changed the tag, I wasn't strictly thinking about having it match another booru. It was just an inaccurate tag. AT THE SAME TIME I don't want to start using three different tags for the same outfit like Dan does either.
There is/was no intention on my part to support multiple tags. Danbooru tags are free form or nearly so. This is either a misunderstanding or an irrelevant side topic.

If seifuku was inaccurate because of misunderstanding the term, we could have changed it to sailor_uniform for example, rather than obliterating all the accumulated tag data by lumping it into school_uniform. It would not have taken that much effort to clean the tag data from a pool of 1200, if the task was distributed to several active members. I for one, would have helped. School_uniform comprises a pool of 22,000 images.

otaku_emmy said:
As for Yandere, their tagging is pretty darn shitty compared to ours and Danbooru's. They're either lacking in detail or, in some cases, completely wrong. So I wouldn't necessarily use them as a good example to go by when talking about tags.
Yande.re follows a similar tagging policy and formal change procedure as we do here. In fact Yande.re has a smaller set of approved tags than konachan. There are of course some differences.. My statement to "normalize tags" was metaphysical, only intended to open a pathway for this discussion.

otaku_emmy said:
So I simplified it.
The ability to find an image with a character wearing a seifuki was diluted by a factor of 18.3

Edit: Mr.peanutbutter, you clearly do not understand how tags, aliases, implications or tag search works, nor community Etiquette. There are rules, of course you are aware of the more common rules for posting images, comments and forum posts, but there are also rules for tagging, adding new tags, deleting existing tags, changing tags for example. They are not arbitrary.
While seifuku does literally mean school uniform we've been using it to specify a specific style of uniform. Perhaps the original seifuku tag should've been cleaned up with a new kogal tag first to maintain the stylistic distinction.
In my opinion school_uniform fits better with our other tags just bc it's in english. We don't really have much japanese tags (do we have anyone anymore?)
traz64 said:
While seifuku does literally mean school uniform we've been using it to specify a specific style of uniform. Perhaps the original seifuku tag should've been cleaned up with a new kogal tag first to maintain the stylistic distinction.
Too late for that now....unless you want to manually go through some 21707 posts tagged school_uniform. There were only some 1200 posts tagged seifuku. This is precisely why the rules for tag aliasing or deprecation require a 7 day comment period.

BattlequeenYume said:
In my opinion school_uniform fits better with our other tags just bc it's in english. We don't really have much japanese tags (do we have anyone anymore?)
Yes we do have many Japanese tags: chibi, kimono, sarashi, yukata, zettai_ryouiki, miko, ninja, samurai, shoujo_ai, shounen_ai, yuri, taiyaki, pocky, sake, kotatsu, onsen, ofuda, torii, katana
Well there are a few tags that you can't really translate. Like kimono or chibi and many others you mentioned. They are own words I would say.
Other sites such as Yande.re use a lot more transliterated Japanese words. Konachan is a Japanese Anime Wallpaper Community, should we not attempt to embrace the relevant Japanese Culture, as Yande.re does by aliasing the English translations to Japanese Tranlit words? (That is my personal opinion.)

I would say the concept of seifuku is also uniquely Japanese. Although as pointed out by Traz, seifuku literally does mean school_uniform, the specific Japanese term for the sailor type school_uniform is serafuku. None the less the tag should not have been so carelessly obliterated. I hope not to see this happen again.

fyi: kogal
If It makes you feel any better about it, I'll manually go through the posts that aren't Japanese school uniforms and remove the tag.

We just won't have a way to tag/search for sailor suits or sailor dresses anymore I guess.

...I could be super nice and create and apply a new tag specifically for sailor collars. It'd just take a while. Especially considering the internet issues I've been having.

But I can still do it I guess.

...Still don't regret changing it though...
Artisttag k-doku to mushpz?